SC2Mapster Forums

Photoloss Regular Shmoe

Join date: May 03, 2010

Location: Germany

Reputation: 56

Posts: 709

Last login: Jun 15, 2013

#21 Feb 08, 2013 at 14:26 UTC - 0 likes

@MacSC2: Go

You want the Search to apply the Teleport effect, and you should probably place the Validator on the teleport effect too. This sounds rather counter-intuitive, but the internal logic is this:

Search effect is executed "on" the target specified by its location field(s), this is pretty much true for all other effect types too.
The Search applies the effect(s) specified under the Area+ field to valid targets based on its other parameters (range, max targets, filters...); Searches are also smart enough to check targets against the validators on the effect they're meant to apply, and disregard all targets that don't fit.
This effect is run "on" the "found" unit, however this doesn't mean the effect actually affects this unit. They normally do because effects run on the Target scope by default (Location+ fields), which the Search sets to the "found" unit.
The units "found" by the Search are only accessible to the effect applied by said search, and all subsequent effects resulting from that. Running a Search effect without specifying an effect to apply is, for the most part, a waste of CPU.

As an example, consider Ability(effect-target)->Search(filter: exclude player, ally, range 10)->Damage(amount: 100, validator: IsHatchery)

By default this would deal 100 damage to all non-allied Hatcheries within 10 range of the targeted unit.
If you change the Impact Location+ of the Search to Caster, it will deal 100 damage to all non-allied Hatcheries within 10 range of your casting unit, regardless of what you targeted.
If you change the Impact Location+ of the Damage to Caster, your unit itself will now take 100 damage for every non-allied Hatchery within 10 range, while the Hatcheries show no ingame change whatsoever.

MacSC2 Regular Shmoe

Join date: Apr 17, 2012

Location: Canada

Reputation: 0

Posts: 140

Last login: Jun 14, 2013

#22 Feb 08, 2013 at 19:12 UTC - 0 likes

@Photoloss: Go

Oh so if I understand well, the search will look for the building, once the building is found, he will apply the teleport effect ... BUT because i setted the effect to "caster", he will apply it on my hero ... But for the teleport destination, did I made it right to apply it to "effect (search) - Target unit" ?

Also, why the validator on the teleport effect ? The teleport effect will check if my hero is the building ?

So if I listen what you told me, I now have only the periodic effect for the teleport ?

Note: Thank you very much for your help, you explain very well, and it's greatly appreciated !:)

Edit: Aaaaaah I did it, but now my hero is teleported back to where he was 1 second before when I move ... Gonna try to mess around to see what's wrong :/

Edit 2: Damn can't make it work :( Can you take a look at those pictures, and tell me what I did wrong ?

Teleport Effect:

Search Area Effect:

Area +:

Last edited Feb 08, 2013 by MacSC2

Photoloss Regular Shmoe

Join date: May 03, 2010

Location: Germany

Reputation: 56

Posts: 709

Last login: Jun 15, 2013

#23 Feb 08, 2013 at 19:38 UTC - 0 likes

@MacSC2: Go

If the destination doesn't work try Teleport-Source, if that fails add a Set effect between the Search and Teleport and use Set-Target. These scopes usually take a few tries to work properly, usually you cycle through Source and Target and 1-2 effects up and down the chain for more complex setups. With effects it's usually Source=unit the effect came from=Target of previous effect; Target=unit "hit" by the current effect; but with other uses there's no standard and no documentation, so it's all trial and error. As an example, the Magazine ability effect fields have no scope for the host unit.

The Teleport effect should be "applied" on the structure, as that's what the Search is looking for. It then "realises" it's supposed to execute on the Caster and applies its effects. If it doesn't work, same as above add a Set between the 2 (or use the above Set if you already added it, you don't need 2 Set effects)

You need 1 period for the Search->Teleport, and another one preceding that to disable the hero. The Stun is only so the ingame behavior matches the animations, if you used Blink animations it would look ok without the disable. You can also add as many additional periods as you like to apply other effects, but you didn't mention any in the concept. Note that there are only 2 actions that aren't executed "instantly": Use/Reload times on Abilities/Weapons and Persistent effects.

Edit: On the Search set Minimum Count to default and Maximum Count to 1, though it shouldn't matter as long as there's only 1 viable target. For the Teleport destination see above, I guess Search-Target refers to the epicenter of the search then, aka your hero.

Last edited Feb 08, 2013 by Photoloss

MacSC2 Regular Shmoe

Join date: Apr 17, 2012

Location: Canada

Reputation: 0

Posts: 140

Last login: Jun 14, 2013

#24 Feb 08, 2013 at 20:00 UTC - 0 likes

@Photoloss: Go

What do you mean by placing a "set between the 2" ? Could you be more precise please, i'm sorry this is my first time touching the teleport effect :$

Also, from what you saw in the pictures, are the fields Ok, except what you pointed out in the last paragraph ?

Oh and also ... the stun is necessary only for the visual to match right ? I don't need a stun for the teleport effect to be successful ?

Last edited Feb 08, 2013 by MacSC2

Photoloss Regular Shmoe

Join date: May 03, 2010

Location: Germany

Reputation: 56

Posts: 709

Last login: Jun 15, 2013

#25 Feb 08, 2013 at 22:30 UTC - 0 likes

@MacSC2: Go

With "in between" I mean make the Search apply the Set effect, and add the Teleport as the only entry in the Set. I tend to think in "chains" of effects, any other location-type references are also based on this. It's very handy for complex setups, you basically say an effect "follows after" another one if it's listed in an effect-applying field (Area+, Periodic Effect etc.), forming the "chain".

Your effects look ok overall, I don't know what Effect:Source+ does on the teleport and the Target:Marker+ on the Search should be grey, but I guess that's only an artifact from copying. (when you copy an effect directly it keeps the Marker ID of the original, however this is only releveant if your setup uses markers in the first place, like Mutalisk attacks. Using the "duplicate" option sets it to the default, unique ID)

You definitely need a validator to identify the evac structure, as a first try it should be on the Teleport effect.

The Stun is not needed for the teleport to function, look at Blink. If anything you have to be careful not to make teleportation impossible, as Fungal Growth somehow prevents Blink, which may be tied to the "suppress movement" flag (the most convenient way of rooting a unit)

MacSC2 Regular Shmoe

Join date: Apr 17, 2012

Location: Canada

Reputation: 0

Posts: 140

Last login: Jun 14, 2013

#26 Feb 09, 2013 at 11:44 UTC - 0 likes

@Photoloss: Go

I completly remade my ability : I made it like mass recall.

Ability (Effect-Instant) ==> Emergenxy Extract (Set) ==> Emergency Extract (Search) ==> Emergency Extract (Apply behavior) ==> emergency Extract (Stun behavior) ==> Teleport effect (set) ==> Teleport (unit).

Now, it kinda "works", but when i click the ability, my hero just vanishes, and I can'T see it anymore, even if he is still alive ... (I see his hero Icon, and I see his life stats when I click on it) ...

Is my research incorrect or do you think i messed out something else ??? All I changed from recall is I removed the post-recall behaviour, the epi-center of the search ( I setted so it'S my hero, and not a target point like "mass-recall"). And finally, for my teleport, the target unit is the caster, and the location is the target unit/point from my research effect)

Photoloss Regular Shmoe

Join date: May 03, 2010

Location: Germany

Reputation: 56

Posts: 709

Last login: Jun 15, 2013

#27 Feb 09, 2013 at 13:07 UTC - 0 likes

@MacSC2: Go

Assuming you can still use the unit, i.e. it's physically there but not visible, check the actors involved. Mass Recall uses Opacity and Tint events and I would guess the ClearOpacity/SetOpacity1 is triggered by the post-recall buff you left out.

To make sure it's a visual problem try double-clicking the icon/hotkey, that should center the view on your hero. If it's anywhere other than next to the evac structure the teleport itself is messed up. Also try box-selecting your hero, that should work for low-opacity actors but not the more "thorough" invisibility (Hidden flag etc.)

I don't see what you need the Set and Teleport Set effects for, I assume these are relics of the original ability.

Is there a reason you gave up on the previous setup? If you think you've hit a wall directly copying stock setups causes more problems than it could possibly solve, either it works and you have no idea why, or it fails and you now have an incomplete setup with a lot of hidden nuances and no idea how it came to be. Recreating stock chains from scratch is ok, and copying simple things like Marine weapons saves a lot of time (use "duplicate" option, not copy-paste), but currently the copy functions aren't suited to more complex systems, for example many abilities have auxilliary actors that never appear in the tree view (look at the Colossus weapon. Half the actors aren't listed)

MacSC2 Regular Shmoe

Join date: Apr 17, 2012

Location: Canada

Reputation: 0

Posts: 140

Last login: Jun 14, 2013

#28 Feb 10, 2013 at 02:10 UTC - 0 likes

@Photoloss: Go

Damn, I'll just restart it from scratch ... I have a radar ability with a 40 range on my hero, and when he disappears, I activate it, but I don't see the range ... (40 is big tho) So my question is : If my hero is alive ... Where the f*ck is he ?

Also I'll remember what you told me for the long or complex abilities about copying :P That's why I restart from scratch as soon as I can :)

Last edited Feb 10, 2013 by MacSC2

Photoloss Regular Shmoe

Join date: May 03, 2010

Location: Germany

Reputation: 56

Posts: 709

Last login: Jun 15, 2013

#29 Feb 10, 2013 at 10:16 UTC - 0 likes

@MacSC2: Go

The common fallback point for invalid positions is the bottom-left corner of the map. Have you tried double clicking the icon/hotkey or clicking the portrait to center the camera on the hero?

Most actors (not sure about radar range) inherit visibility, opacity and/or tint status from their host, so especially if you used a SetVisibility0 action to hide the hero not only would they become invisible, but all attached actors would vanish too.

SC2Mapster.com

Development > Data

Couple tricky questions